Hillary Peterson [00:00:20]: I am Hillary Peterson, and I’m the founder of True Botanicals, and for me, it’s a matter of proof, and what proof means to me, within the beauty industry, is that it’s not enough to say you’re authentic; it’s not enough to say that your products work or that these celebrities who are talking about your products really love them, but rather that all of those things are true.
Kelly Kovack [00:00:56]: Clean, green, and everything in between. There’s no going back, the beauty paradigm has shifted forever. I’m Kelly Kovack, founder of BeautyMatter. The backlash against traditional beauty brands may have been inevitable. There was a time, not too long ago, when natural products were a fringe category. Fast forward, clean, green, and natural claims are table stakes to compete in today’s beauty landscape, regardless of price point or channel of distribution. While the future of beauty might be radically clean, the origins of the movement lie in the countless stories of health scares. Thyroid cancer and the feeling of utter indignation at the discovery that all her beauty products had one thing in common: toxic ingredients. This was the driving force for Hillary Peterson to found True Botanicals and her commitment to transform the beauty industry.
Hillary, thank you so much for joining us. Like many clean beauty founders and consumers, you found your way to challenging the status quo of the industry and the products that were being developed because of a health crisis. Can you share a little bit about your path from marketing executive at Levi’s to founding True Botanicals, and a little bit of, I suppose, emotionally, sort of what drove you? Because I have to…people talk about that a lot, as sort of the tipping point, if you will, for making the change, but people rarely talk about how emotionally fueled it is, because your life like fundamentally changes in so many ways.
Hillary Peterson [00:02:47]: That’s such a great question because it was a very emotional decision, actually, for me. At the time that I was recovering from thyroid cancer, I had baby twins, and it’s a very vulnerable thing, to have cancer, and have children that, you know, you want to be around for as long as possible, and as I was recovering, I was looking at all of the different ways I could live the healthiest possible life, and of course I looked at diet and exercise and meditation, the things that were really already a part of my life, and I was thinking I needed to double down on, and one thing I was one hundred percent unaware of until that time is that there are toxins in many, many of our beauty products, and I discovered that, and once I discovered that, the emotion that I felt was indignation. I just thought, “Well, that is completely crazy, that there’s an industry selling me products, telling me I should use them to look and feel beautiful, and they’re made with toxins. What’s beautiful about toxins? Nothing.” And, so, coming from an entrepreneurial family and having a marketing background and having a very strong sense of passion, I decided that this was something I wanted to do.
Kelly Kovack [00:04:00]: And, was it really from – I mean, I think indignation is sort of…kind of sums it up, because it’s sort of anger and passion, you know, did you really feel compelled that you had to be part of a change, or that you could affect change? Was that the driving force?
Hillary Peterson [00:04:23]: Yes, I think, you know, when people ask me what makes me feel the happiest in life, I’ve always had the feeling that helping people is an incredible privilege – helping them in whatever way they need help, and so I think it was clear to me, professionally, that I would do something someday as an entrepreneur that helped people, and it just became clear to me that this was the way.
Kelly Kovack [00:04:49]: It’s interesting how sometimes, like everything in life happens for a purpose, even though I think sometimes it’s not immediately apparent to us.
Hillary Peterson [00:05:00]: Completely, completely. It was a gift. It was a gift in a lot of ways, because I feel like I raised my children very differently also, having had that experience. It’s impacted a lot of things.
Kelly Kovack [00:5:10]: Well, I also think that, you know, I mean, I’m thankful for entrepreneurs like you who have sort of the foundation and background in business, but the passion and sort of the willingness to sort of change the status quo, because it’s never an easy path.
Hillary Peterson [00:5:30]: It’s not.
Kelly Kovack [00:05:31]: It’s not. It’s not, and you know what, I think that there are, you know, the clean beauty conversation has become prevalent, which is fantastic, but I also feel like it is also – I’m not sure what it’s grounded in anymore. But, when you launched True Botanicals in 2014, it was still early days in clean beauty, and you were one of the first brands to create products that were Made Safe certified. Why was it important to you to have that certification, and why Made Safe as opposed to any number of other third parties?
Hillary Peterson [00:06:21]: So, what became apparent, even at that time when there were fewer brands in the marketplace, was that there was so much information. Some brands would say, “100% organic, 100% natural, strictest standards in the industry,” and yet there was no way to measure the authenticity of the claims, and I think consumers were very confused, and frankly, I was confused, and so I stood back and I thought, “What do I really care about relative to these products that I want to create? I want them to be very effective, and I want to make sure that they are absolutely safe for people and the planet,” and in that goal, there really isn’t a need for 100% natural, because Vitamin C is an incredible ingredient and non-toxic, so is hyaluronic acid, and so ultimately, I realized I think there are a lot of people like me that want results and to know that the products are safe, and Made Safe is, without a doubt, the most rigorous certification in that way, because so many toxins are hidden in sub-ingredients in products, and Made Safe looks at every single ingredient and sub-ingredient to ensure that they’re safe for people and the planet, that they don’t bio-accumulate on the planet or in people, and the rigor of that certification most closely matched my goals. So, that’s why I chose it, and I found Made Safe through our science advisor who is the head of green chemistry at Carnegie Mellon University, and we were one of their first brands, actually.
Kelly Kovack [00:07:56]: I have to say, I think Made Safe has, of all sort of the third-party, I think for the same reasons that I think you chose it, I think that they are finally providing guidelines that actually have some teeth in them.
Hillary Peterson [00:08:12]: Yes, and they’re really looking at these ingredients.
Kelly Kovack [00:08:15]: You know, because I think so many of the other certifications, it’s about writing a check at the end of the day, and that’s not doing anyone a service.
Hillary Peterson [00:08:22]: It is, and it’s self-reporting, you know, you fill in the information, whereas with Made Safe, they’re looking at it all themselves.
Kelly Kovack [00:08:31]: You know, I mean, I’m hoping that Made Safe becomes sort of the sort of certification that sort of qualifies brands, because I think that there’s – you have sort of third-party certifications, but then you have retailer certifications, which…talk about self-reporting. Self-reporting, and you know, I think the intention is correct, but I think it’s creating more confusion because there’s not consistency between any of them.
Hillary Peterson [00:09:03]: Well, and the great thing is, I mean, I do have to say, I’m thrilled all of these certifications exist, I really am, because we just keep elevating what’s possible, and I think if all of the standards were as strict as Made Safe, then there wouldn’t be that many products available. So, there is something to be said for evolution, but I’m thrilled that you appreciate the integrity of Made Safe, because I really do too, and I’m grateful they’re doing the hard work.
Kelly Kovack [00:09:29]: They’re a fantastic organization, they really are. I mean, at least they have raised the bar for what’s possible, because I think for so long, there was a lot of questions in consumers’ minds, but even kind of on the formulation side of what was possible, and I really think it’s the indie brands that push these sort of contract manufacturers and formulators to think differently.
Hillary Peterson [00:09:57]: Yes, 100%, and we’re having that experience now, and it’s been very rewarding to see how we’ve been able to help evolve the industry.
Kelly Kovack [00:10:07]: Yeah, I mean, I think the formulation of clean beauty and even organic and natural has come so far, but I feel like the packaging side of the equation hasn’t moved as fast, unfortunately.
Hillary Peterson [00:10:24]: No, it hasn’t. I really – it’s so funny, because people will say to me, “What is the greatest challenge in creating your products?” and I say, “The packaging, 100%.” And, there are a lot of issues. I mean, for instance, brands are interested in doing things that you think would be very positive, for instance, using recycled plastic, and actually, recycled plastic loses its integrity, and so the toxins are more likely to leech into products. So, there’s a lot of complexity as we push this industry to evolve and packaging to evolve that’s just not really being addressed yet, and I hunger for packaging that would be more thoughtful, and we’re doing our best. So far, glass is the answer, 100%, from our perspective.
Kelly Kovack [00:11:05]: You know, I think it was – I think last year was the moment where I was just sort of like, “Okay. The packaging side of our industry finally gets it,” and there’s – you see innovation happening, but I think it’s just starting, and I see so many really amazing and totally out there solutions coming from sort of Master’s programs and PhD programs from design and science, mostly in Europe, where I’m like, oh my god, the creativity. The commercialization isn’t there yet, so if only we could get those capable of the commercialization to connect with these really young, beautiful minds, I think we’re going to get there.
Hillary Peterson [00:11:57]: Absolutely, because I know the consumer really cares. We hear from our customers that they really care, and they know we’re doing the best we can. You know, we still have the droppers with the rubber on top, because that’s how we can get the product out of the bottle.
Kelly Kovack [00:12:10]: There’s no other solution.
Hillary Peterson [00:12:11]: Yes. But, it’s exciting, I agree, and 20 years from now, I’m guessing we’ll see a very different picture.
Kelly Kovack [00:12:18]: Yeah, and you know, I think also, the beauty category, it’s a complicated category. There are a lot of moving parts to getting something in a bottle or a jar, and I think consumers, and even people in other industries don’t realize that, sort of the supply chain complexity, so I think a lot of these technologies are kind of blue sky and haven’t really been commercialized, and as sort of a start-up or an entrepreneurial business to be the first to go to bat on that, if something goes pear shaped, you have a whole big problem on your hands. So, you also have to, I think – I think about the financial risk attached to sort of being the first when it comes to packaging.
Hillary Peterson [00:13:07]: Very much. For instance, something that’s biodegradable, well, how quickly does it biodegrade?
Kelly Kovack [00:13:13]: Exactly, exactly. In talking a little bit about sort of the DNA and product side of True Botanicals, I think there’s another really important part and really interesting part to me, kind of what makes your business tick, and that’s your commitment to conscious entrepreneurism, and also talking about the business being an equitable endeavor, which is so refreshing in a highly transactional environment that we live in. Can you explain what this means exactly, kind of how it’s structured and why it was important?
Hillary Peterson [00:13:49]: You know, a lot of times people will say to me, “We’re just so proud of you and what you’ve done with your company,” and even at work sometimes, employees will say to me, “Well, it is your company,” and I’ll quickly correct them and say, “Well, no, it’s our company,” and when you look at our brand activists, Laura Dern, Olivia Wilde, and Zazie Beetz, they very much feel like they’re partners in collaborating with us to create change in an industry that’s so desperately in need of change, and a lot of that comes from an attitude. It also comes from the fact that our employees and our brand activists are all part owners of the company, and so together, we’re building something that will benefit all of us, most important, benefit our consumers and the planet, and it creates a whole different feeling. Olivia came to the office one day for the opening of our store, and she was spending time with the employees and talking to everybody, and really acting like somebody who is part of our company, because she is, and I think it makes a really big difference when you have a mission-driven business, when people can feel as much a part of it as our team does.
Kelly Kovack [00:15:08]: You know, I think that – I think a lot of companies pay lip service to that concept. I think what sort of struck a cord with me was that you have kind of actualized it in a very concrete way that seems to, sort of from an outsider, feel like it’s almost the foundation of intent and how you do business.
Hillary Peterson [00:15:35]: I think you’re right. I think you’re right, and it does make it feel very different to me. I know it’s the kind of place that I would want to work, and so just like these products are the kind of products I would like to use, and ironically, I haven’t actually told this story before, in an interview, I was working with one of our manufacturers, and we were talking through some decisions that we needed to make about one of our products – we formulate all of our products ourselves, and there were just a couple of cost-cutting opportunities that he pointed out, and I just said, “No, well, we couldn’t do that because this, and we couldn’t do that because this,” and at the end of the meeting, he said, “I just want to tell you, it’s so refreshing. You’re the first person I’ve met who is making the kinds of products they’d like to use themselves,” and this is a big manufacturer, and I was very shocked. I was very shocked. I know that’s not true, because I’ve met – I love so many fellow brands in the green beauty industry and I so respect the work that they’re doing, so that’s very refreshing, but it was surprising, and it just made me realize that owning in in the way that we are is something I’m excited to see more in the world, for sure.
Kelly Kovack [00:16:45]: Well, you know, I think that the beauty industry has been a really hot category from kind of an investor standpoint, and I think anytime – you know, I started my career kind of in the late ‘90s at Bliss, so I was sort of part of that first incarnation of kind of beauty brands that scaled, and so it’s kind of interesting to see it come full-circle, but I think any time that happens, you have people who enter the industry, or launch brands, thinking that it’s a quick in-and-out with easy money, and I think we both know that there are way easier ways to make money than launching a beauty brand, but I think it’s happened in clean beauty because the growth has been kind of meteoric, investors are looking at it, and so I think you have the people who are really committed to making the change, and then you have a lot of opportunistic brands, and I think that that’s where the confusion is coming from.
Hillary Peterson [00:17:57]: Yes, I think you’re right, and I think that’s where these certifications can make a huge difference, where I think clinical trials and before and after’s and genuine customer testimonials, so that the customers can make choices that are well-informed, because it’s hard. As it gets more crowded, I think it gets more confusing.
Kelly Kovack [00:18:19]: And, I think as it evolves and gets sort of on one end of the spectrum, you have brands that are pushing for validation and creating the proof behind, I mean, Cult Beauty is working with a block-chain company called Progonons to actually create substantiation in a completely different way, but then on the other side, you have the FDC suing people for claims that, you know, I mean, one of the brands, I remember looking at it, and I’m not a product developer, but I was like, “There’s no way. There’s no way that product is natural.” And so, but, it’s like, I don’t know, is that a cost of doing business, because there was this window of opportunity, and you can have these brands that can be a quick in and out because the barrier of entry has been so low.
Hillary Peterson [00:19:13]: Yeah, and we’ve seen that happen in the food industry, too. A lot of misinformation.
Kelly Kovack [00:19:20]: I suppose that goes to my next question. I kind of refer to the category as “clean, green, and kind of everything in between,” because it has kind of become that, but what do you think the future holds for this category? And, as one of the kind of pioneers in the category, you know, what sort of leadership role are you and the company taking to kind of make the future that you see happen?
Hillary Peterson [00:19:51]: I have such faith in future generations, and the fact that they are so discerning and thoughtful and committed to what things are versus what they look like, and so I’m very hopeful that – this is why I love being a direct brand – I’m very hopeful that this particular group coming up is going to be very careful to research the ingredients and to make sure that companies are what they say they are, and so I feel confident that the future holds a lot of benefit for brands that are truly authentic. I think that’s – and, truthful, you know, around the proof that they provide relative to the safety of the products, the efficacy of products, that their testimonials on their website are from real people and that they’re real testimonials. I do believe that this is a moment where those types of brands will be the most successful, and I’m grateful for the thoughtfulness of you know, Gen X-ers and Gen Z consumers who I think are going to hold companies to their word.
Kelly Kovack [00:21:08]: I agree with you. I think there is – I would even push it further, I think there’s a reckoning coming from sort of Gen Z consumers, and if these brands that kind of play free and easy with claims and what they stand for, if they don’t sort of like clean up their acts, I don’t think they’re going to be in business. I think there’s a point coming where it’s just simply not going to be tolerated anymore.
Hillary Peterson [00:21:35]: I agree. I think people want the truth, and the truth doesn’t have to be…
Kelly Kovack [00:21:40]: It doesn’t have to be scary.
Hillary Peterson [00:21:42]: Right, and it doesn’t have to be that a brand is 100% committed to one thing or another, just they are what they are. Be what you are.
Kelly Kovack [00:21:50]: Just be honest. I would agree, and I really – I hope that time comes, because I think it’s better for everyone. I think it’s better for the consumer. I think it’s better for the businesses themselves and the people who sort of work for those businesses.
Hillary Peterson [00:22:04]: And, it’s certainly better for this category. That’s where I feel like something like Made Safe is going to be essential – it’s going to be our protection during these times, I think.
Kelly Kovack [00:22:12]: And, you briefly touched on the fact that you’re a direct brand. So, you know, initially when you launched, you were sort of a direct brand, kind of, I guess maybe digitally native, but you also had sort of a more traditional path that many sort of luxury skincare brands take with a really curated group of retailers, Barney’s, which, you know, I guess, you know, you got saved there.
Hillary Peterson [00:22:45]: I’m still sad, I loved that store.
Kelly Kovack [00:22:47]: It is so sad. It’s a whole other – it’s heartbreaking. Follain, O’Bare, so it was really sort of high-end department stores, independent retail, and spa, but you did something kind of unconventional, you know, most people would not sort of pull out of retailers like that, but you clearly did an intentional pivot, and I was wondering if you could talk about that a bit.
Hillary Peterson [00:23:14]: Yeah, so, you know, we really value the retailers that we were in, and those relationships and I just really enjoyed everything that I learned from being in the retail environment, and got a lot from that. It was a great way to connect with new consumers. Our direct business was growing so quickly and was requiring so much attention and focus, that we realized it was a moment for us to really double down on direct and focus and bring to it everything that we could, and I really see going forward that there will likely be opportunities to go back into retail, we’ve done that, we’ve done a lot of foundational work on our direct business, and it’s very solid, and so I could definitely see a moment in which we look for ways to meet consumers where they are through select retailer partnerships again.
Kelly Kovack [00:24:10]: Would part of that decision be sort of the cost of acquisition online that is really making it kind of prohibitive to use it solely as the way of attracting new consumers? It’s just not sustainable anymore.
Hillary Peterson [00:24:27]: Yeah. I think, you know, to me, it’s a very complimentary opportunity to be online and then to be where people are looking for products like ours. So, I think a lot of it is around the complimentary aspects, because I don’t think we’ve yet fully tapped what’s possible as a direct business, so for us, it’s probably primarily focused on that opportunity and the fact that convenience, sometimes people just want to grab and touch and feel, and also experience the products, and I think what’s great about potentially tapping into retail again is the opportunity of partnering with retailers to create experiences that are compelling for consumers. It just adds another dimension, I think, to the possibility.
Kelly Kovack [00:25:20]: So, one of the retailers you didn’t exit was Goop. Can you tell us why? I think I know, but I’m not going to answer the question for you.
Hillary Peterson [00:25:28]: Yeah, no problem. I’m so curious what you think. Yeah, the reason we did not pull our products from Goop was because they too are online, direct, but really, it was about their editorial platform, and the fact that they’re so content-driven, it just felt like we wanted to continue to be part of what they’re doing.
Kelly Kovack [00:25:51]: I know one of the interesting things that you’ve done, and I’m waiting for my next trip to San Francisco to see your store, because it is stunning, from what I’ve seen.
Hillary Peterson [00:26:00]: Please come and get a facial, we would love it.
Kelly Kovack [00:26:03]: I would love for you to talk about – I would imagine that that offline sort of articulation of your brand on your own terms will probably inform how you enter retail, again I’m guessing, but what does the purpose of that store mean for you, kind of from a business standpoint, community brand? It’s more than just selling products, clearly.
Hillary Peterson [00:26:29]: Yes, definitely. Well, for one thing, the store is downstairs and our offices are upstairs, which is such a fun, sort of traditional European model, I love it. I love to be able to go downstairs and listen to customers’ interactions and questions, and we have a clinic in the store, so it serves several purposes. One is the clinic allows us to go deeper with customers in our problem-solving efforts: we can have a trio of facials, support someone who is struggling with adult acne or who is trying to soothe rosacea, so we can really be consultative and have that very direct experience with them, so that’s one thing, and then the other is we’re really seeing it as an event incubator, where we can figure out what are the most compelling ways for people to come in and interact with us? What’s most interesting to them? How can we meet them where they are and provide the kind of information and event that interests them most? So, we’re learning a lot, and yes, we’ll definitely apply that learning to future retail endeavors, definitely.
Kelly Kovack [00:27:43]: And, will we see more of your brand in stores?
Hillary Peterson [00:27:45]: I would think so, yes.
Kelly Kovack [00:27:47]: In New York?
Hillary Peterson [00:27:49]: Well, it’s so interesting, because I really think New York would be a perfect place for us to go, for sure.
